Post by niniane on Apr 18, 2009 17:17:06 GMT 1
Elem, na BigLightu se u zadnje vrijeme dosta raspravlja o tome tko je Williamov otac i kako je William točno nastao. Najviše ljudi vjeruje da je otac Mulder i da je William lijepo prirodno začet ;D, no ima i alternativnih teorija.
Jedna mi je posebno kul jer je Frank potvrdio da je vrlo blizu istine. Pa copy-pasteam;)
I'm sorry, Frank, I bet you must be sick of seeing the paternity of William dominate another e-mail, but I wanted to throw my hat into the ring after reading Cassie's post.
I think her generalization that Shippers find nothing else interesting outside of Mulder and Scully is quite presumptuous. It would be the equivalent of me claiming that 'all Dippers like to argue/bash anything concerning Mulder just to pimp Doggett.' I am a Shipper, but it was the mythology and MOTW that initially drew me to the show in the first place. I liked how they stuck within the realm of extreme possibilty. From there, I also liked how the different characters interacted with each other as I tried to figure out who was on which side. I enjoyed the show for all its facets, and came around from my original NoRomo leanings to enjoy the 'Ship because the relationship between Mulder and Scully was another facet in the overall whole. I love the 'it's us against the world' vibe that they had with their partnership, and how they developed together through the years into probably the most complex dynamic in television. The decline in Seasons 8 and 9 proves that they were a much larger part of the success of the franchise than some would like to give them credit for, and are the faces of the franchise. The 'Ship doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea. I respect that. However, it should also be respected that there are a lot of fans who do like and appreciate the 'Ship. Apparently, these things do mean something if we're able to have discussions like this 7 years after the show has ended. It's certainly a testimony to the passion that still runs deep among all fans.
Alrighty, with that mini rant out of my system, I want to tackle the 'who's the daddy' issue. For me, how William was conceived holds more question than who his father was. Like Tiffany, I thought that the show did a wonderful job confirming his paternity once and for all based upon what appeared onscreen. Besides the examples she gave, I want to add Billy Miles - who murdered Dr. Lev from Zeus Genetics and burned down his facility, murdered Dr. Parenti, and murdered Duffy Haskell to systematically eliminate all traces of the hybrid experiments being done - simply walked away from William after he was born. This confirms that William was a wild card, and not who Miles had thought him to be. If William had been the result of the IVF, with Dr. Parenti as Scully's obstetrician, then Miles probably would have eliminated him on the spot. Then there's the prophecy in Season 9 which said William "will follow in his father's paths and try and stop the aliens' return. Unless his father was to be killed." This confirms that Mulder and William are father and son, hence why William's birth turned the tide and placed Mulder in danger instead. The super soldiers wanted Mulder dead to fulfill this prophecy, believing William to be the product of something greater than themselves. Josepho and his UFO cult also wanted Mulder dead because they worshipped the Colonists and believed, if Mulder were taken out, then William would lead the colonization in 2012.
This begs the question: why Mulder and William? What would link them together in some prophecized destiny? Well, I think the answer lies within William's paternal biology. If you think about it, William's powers are not that different from the powers Mulder began to display in the "Biogenesis/The Sixth Extinction/The Sixth Extinction II: Amor Fati" saga. William could move objects with his mind; Mulder could read minds, vaguely predict what was going to happen before it happened, and was able to predict the images with perfect accuracy during the remote-viewing capabilities test that Kritschgau conducted when it was turned to a higher frequency. While the power itself may have manifested in a different form, it indicates a similar abnormal brain activity. This is the first history they share.The second history is the spacecraft. In Biogenesis, just the rubbings from the spacecraft were affecting Mulder. They were transforming him into what the baffled project doctors referred to as a "compatible alien-human hybrid." The strange energy from the spacecraft had essentially reactivated the black oil long dormant within Mulder. The problem was, though, it was overloading his body. It was making more alive than he'd ever been, but it was also slowly starting to kill him. CSM had the operation done to transfer genetic material from Mulder to himself, causing Mulder to lose his powers, but I don't think all of the genetic material was successfully harvested. This is the first time that an operation like this had even been attempted... mistakes could have been made, and seemingly were. In "En Ami," CSM reveals to Scully that he is dying of "cerebral inflammation... a consequence of brain surgery I had in the fall." It's established that CSM is not responding well to the genetic material from Mulder. But, if he had it all and Mulder was left completely normal, then why was he also dying before his abduction? He, too, had developed a brain disease. This indicates that he hadn't fully recovered -- that there were enough traces of the black oil left in him to cause this complication, and to unknowingly pass onto a son. William would be natural born, through inheriting Mulder's hybrid genes and immunity to the viral apocalypse. Mulder was meant to have a stronger connection to the spacecraft, but couldn't physically handle it. William can because he was born with it. So, when he's exposed to the spacecraft in Providence that affected Mulder, it reacts to him.
How could Mulder be the father is the next question... I think the spacecraft in Africa healed Scully, and the chip in her neck prevented her from experiencing any side effects to her health (like poor Mulder endured in his case). The spacecraft was capable of raising the dead and healing wounds. Why not her infertility? We know from "Per Manum" that Scully had attempted IVF with Mulder using the ova that Mulder had found in "Memento Mori," but the ova didn't take. She thought it had been her last chance, and Mulder reassured her to "never give up on a miracle." The significance of these flashbacks wasn't to tease us with bits of information we hadn't known about beforehand -- it was to provide the final puzzle piece. In "all things," the opening scene suggests that Mulder and Scully have slept together. I think the questioned "Per Manum" flashbacks took place in the timeframe between this and "Requiem," fitting into the pregnancy arc. Mulder's comment of "this sounds really weird, I know, but I, I just wouldn't want this to come between us" makes more sense in this context...he thinks it sounds weird because there's already a sexual relationship between them. It puts Mulder gazing at Scully holding the baby, and especially him fretting over what has been lost to her from Requiem into context...the IVF failed by this point, and he's anguished for her. Finally, it also puts The Shadow Man's "and I know that on one lonely night you invited Mulder to your bed" into context. It was thrown out there because, in Scully's apartment after the IVF failed, she probably was feeling lonelier than ever and could've invited Mulder to stay. If they're in a romantic relationship at this point, it wouldn't have been a shock for them to sleep together again. I'm sure they did more than once. And, they probably weren't using any method of protection since she was thought to be barren so this could've been the night William came to be. The 'product of a union' is among the possibilities Mulder contemplates in "Essence" while thinking of William, and the 'union of perfect opposites' is in fact the very first possibility that crosses his thoughts, so it definitely could be the truth they both know.
Which finally brings me to the even more questioned timetable. Doubling-checking, the baby that Scully told Skinner about in "Requiem" is obviously the same baby that she gave birth to. The problem has come from many assuming that Mulder was abducted during the summer when, in fact, "Requiem" gives us no exact date whatsoever. Doggett mentioned in "Within" that Mulder had rented a car four times in May, each time with the same mileage, but this was not pertaining to Mulder's abduction. It was simply raising the question that Scully, and us, might not have known everything there was to know about Mulder -- planting the seed of his secret to be revealed in "The Gift." We know that "Requiem," "Within," and "Without" happened within a matter of days from each other in XF time -- Scully is still in the hospital at the beginning of "Within," and still coping with losing Mulder, while the manhunt for Mulder is just getting underway. If Chris Carter were keeping to real time for Season 8, then Mulder might have in fact been abducted sometime in late October or early November so "Requiem" coincides with the airdates of "Within" and "Without." Scully would have been around 2 months along by this point to already be experiencing the fainting spells ("Requiem") and morning sickness ("Within") that she was. By the December timestamp given to us in "Redrum" (note that it's not too far off of what Redrum's airdate was), Scully would have been 3 months along. Keeping close to real time approximating episode airdates (which corresponds to what little time indications we received onscreen -- "Salvage" had a newspaper mentioning Bush succeeding Clinton, which is presumably January, and the airdate is January; Doggett mentioned "Survivor II" in "Medusa," which would put the episode presumably around February and the airdate is February), Scully would then be at 5 months come "This Is Not Happening." Mulder is dead for three months, and this intentional time jump then brings Scully to 8 months along at "DeadAlive." The timestamp takes us to early May, now slightly ahead of real time. "Three Words" has Mulder just being discharged from the hospital in perfect health, a continuation of the final scene in "DeadAlive," so this would keep us in early May. We move through the month with "Empedocles," "Vienen," and "Alone." Which brings us to "Essence" and "Existence." Because Langly is blue in "Essence," we can assume this is keeping to what happened in the series finale of "The Lone Gunmen" spin-off. Dates mentioned in the finale would have us assume the timeline is around the end of May, placing William's birth at the end of May when Scully would be extremely close to her due date...close enough to go into labor and give birth to a healthy baby. Voila. No 12-month-plus pregnancy to explain because it was indeed nine months. It worked as it was.
How's that, Frank? Hot? Cold?
Dhole
New York
Jedna mi je posebno kul jer je Frank potvrdio da je vrlo blizu istine. Pa copy-pasteam;)
I'm sorry, Frank, I bet you must be sick of seeing the paternity of William dominate another e-mail, but I wanted to throw my hat into the ring after reading Cassie's post.
I think her generalization that Shippers find nothing else interesting outside of Mulder and Scully is quite presumptuous. It would be the equivalent of me claiming that 'all Dippers like to argue/bash anything concerning Mulder just to pimp Doggett.' I am a Shipper, but it was the mythology and MOTW that initially drew me to the show in the first place. I liked how they stuck within the realm of extreme possibilty. From there, I also liked how the different characters interacted with each other as I tried to figure out who was on which side. I enjoyed the show for all its facets, and came around from my original NoRomo leanings to enjoy the 'Ship because the relationship between Mulder and Scully was another facet in the overall whole. I love the 'it's us against the world' vibe that they had with their partnership, and how they developed together through the years into probably the most complex dynamic in television. The decline in Seasons 8 and 9 proves that they were a much larger part of the success of the franchise than some would like to give them credit for, and are the faces of the franchise. The 'Ship doesn't have to be everyone's cup of tea. I respect that. However, it should also be respected that there are a lot of fans who do like and appreciate the 'Ship. Apparently, these things do mean something if we're able to have discussions like this 7 years after the show has ended. It's certainly a testimony to the passion that still runs deep among all fans.
Alrighty, with that mini rant out of my system, I want to tackle the 'who's the daddy' issue. For me, how William was conceived holds more question than who his father was. Like Tiffany, I thought that the show did a wonderful job confirming his paternity once and for all based upon what appeared onscreen. Besides the examples she gave, I want to add Billy Miles - who murdered Dr. Lev from Zeus Genetics and burned down his facility, murdered Dr. Parenti, and murdered Duffy Haskell to systematically eliminate all traces of the hybrid experiments being done - simply walked away from William after he was born. This confirms that William was a wild card, and not who Miles had thought him to be. If William had been the result of the IVF, with Dr. Parenti as Scully's obstetrician, then Miles probably would have eliminated him on the spot. Then there's the prophecy in Season 9 which said William "will follow in his father's paths and try and stop the aliens' return. Unless his father was to be killed." This confirms that Mulder and William are father and son, hence why William's birth turned the tide and placed Mulder in danger instead. The super soldiers wanted Mulder dead to fulfill this prophecy, believing William to be the product of something greater than themselves. Josepho and his UFO cult also wanted Mulder dead because they worshipped the Colonists and believed, if Mulder were taken out, then William would lead the colonization in 2012.
This begs the question: why Mulder and William? What would link them together in some prophecized destiny? Well, I think the answer lies within William's paternal biology. If you think about it, William's powers are not that different from the powers Mulder began to display in the "Biogenesis/The Sixth Extinction/The Sixth Extinction II: Amor Fati" saga. William could move objects with his mind; Mulder could read minds, vaguely predict what was going to happen before it happened, and was able to predict the images with perfect accuracy during the remote-viewing capabilities test that Kritschgau conducted when it was turned to a higher frequency. While the power itself may have manifested in a different form, it indicates a similar abnormal brain activity. This is the first history they share.The second history is the spacecraft. In Biogenesis, just the rubbings from the spacecraft were affecting Mulder. They were transforming him into what the baffled project doctors referred to as a "compatible alien-human hybrid." The strange energy from the spacecraft had essentially reactivated the black oil long dormant within Mulder. The problem was, though, it was overloading his body. It was making more alive than he'd ever been, but it was also slowly starting to kill him. CSM had the operation done to transfer genetic material from Mulder to himself, causing Mulder to lose his powers, but I don't think all of the genetic material was successfully harvested. This is the first time that an operation like this had even been attempted... mistakes could have been made, and seemingly were. In "En Ami," CSM reveals to Scully that he is dying of "cerebral inflammation... a consequence of brain surgery I had in the fall." It's established that CSM is not responding well to the genetic material from Mulder. But, if he had it all and Mulder was left completely normal, then why was he also dying before his abduction? He, too, had developed a brain disease. This indicates that he hadn't fully recovered -- that there were enough traces of the black oil left in him to cause this complication, and to unknowingly pass onto a son. William would be natural born, through inheriting Mulder's hybrid genes and immunity to the viral apocalypse. Mulder was meant to have a stronger connection to the spacecraft, but couldn't physically handle it. William can because he was born with it. So, when he's exposed to the spacecraft in Providence that affected Mulder, it reacts to him.
How could Mulder be the father is the next question... I think the spacecraft in Africa healed Scully, and the chip in her neck prevented her from experiencing any side effects to her health (like poor Mulder endured in his case). The spacecraft was capable of raising the dead and healing wounds. Why not her infertility? We know from "Per Manum" that Scully had attempted IVF with Mulder using the ova that Mulder had found in "Memento Mori," but the ova didn't take. She thought it had been her last chance, and Mulder reassured her to "never give up on a miracle." The significance of these flashbacks wasn't to tease us with bits of information we hadn't known about beforehand -- it was to provide the final puzzle piece. In "all things," the opening scene suggests that Mulder and Scully have slept together. I think the questioned "Per Manum" flashbacks took place in the timeframe between this and "Requiem," fitting into the pregnancy arc. Mulder's comment of "this sounds really weird, I know, but I, I just wouldn't want this to come between us" makes more sense in this context...he thinks it sounds weird because there's already a sexual relationship between them. It puts Mulder gazing at Scully holding the baby, and especially him fretting over what has been lost to her from Requiem into context...the IVF failed by this point, and he's anguished for her. Finally, it also puts The Shadow Man's "and I know that on one lonely night you invited Mulder to your bed" into context. It was thrown out there because, in Scully's apartment after the IVF failed, she probably was feeling lonelier than ever and could've invited Mulder to stay. If they're in a romantic relationship at this point, it wouldn't have been a shock for them to sleep together again. I'm sure they did more than once. And, they probably weren't using any method of protection since she was thought to be barren so this could've been the night William came to be. The 'product of a union' is among the possibilities Mulder contemplates in "Essence" while thinking of William, and the 'union of perfect opposites' is in fact the very first possibility that crosses his thoughts, so it definitely could be the truth they both know.
Which finally brings me to the even more questioned timetable. Doubling-checking, the baby that Scully told Skinner about in "Requiem" is obviously the same baby that she gave birth to. The problem has come from many assuming that Mulder was abducted during the summer when, in fact, "Requiem" gives us no exact date whatsoever. Doggett mentioned in "Within" that Mulder had rented a car four times in May, each time with the same mileage, but this was not pertaining to Mulder's abduction. It was simply raising the question that Scully, and us, might not have known everything there was to know about Mulder -- planting the seed of his secret to be revealed in "The Gift." We know that "Requiem," "Within," and "Without" happened within a matter of days from each other in XF time -- Scully is still in the hospital at the beginning of "Within," and still coping with losing Mulder, while the manhunt for Mulder is just getting underway. If Chris Carter were keeping to real time for Season 8, then Mulder might have in fact been abducted sometime in late October or early November so "Requiem" coincides with the airdates of "Within" and "Without." Scully would have been around 2 months along by this point to already be experiencing the fainting spells ("Requiem") and morning sickness ("Within") that she was. By the December timestamp given to us in "Redrum" (note that it's not too far off of what Redrum's airdate was), Scully would have been 3 months along. Keeping close to real time approximating episode airdates (which corresponds to what little time indications we received onscreen -- "Salvage" had a newspaper mentioning Bush succeeding Clinton, which is presumably January, and the airdate is January; Doggett mentioned "Survivor II" in "Medusa," which would put the episode presumably around February and the airdate is February), Scully would then be at 5 months come "This Is Not Happening." Mulder is dead for three months, and this intentional time jump then brings Scully to 8 months along at "DeadAlive." The timestamp takes us to early May, now slightly ahead of real time. "Three Words" has Mulder just being discharged from the hospital in perfect health, a continuation of the final scene in "DeadAlive," so this would keep us in early May. We move through the month with "Empedocles," "Vienen," and "Alone." Which brings us to "Essence" and "Existence." Because Langly is blue in "Essence," we can assume this is keeping to what happened in the series finale of "The Lone Gunmen" spin-off. Dates mentioned in the finale would have us assume the timeline is around the end of May, placing William's birth at the end of May when Scully would be extremely close to her due date...close enough to go into labor and give birth to a healthy baby. Voila. No 12-month-plus pregnancy to explain because it was indeed nine months. It worked as it was.
How's that, Frank? Hot? Cold?
Dhole
New York